The Tea on Sustainable Living

#29 | Traveling like a local vs. a tourist: sustainable travel series

May 16, 2023 Brandee and Hannah
The Tea on Sustainable Living
#29 | Traveling like a local vs. a tourist: sustainable travel series
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Show Notes Transcript

Do you like to travel like a local or a tourist? Or a good mix of both??

In today’s episode, we’re continuing our sustainable travel series by chatting about what to do while you’re actually on your trip. (And if you haven’t already, go back and listen to episode #28 first!)

Join us as we discuss traveling like a local versus a tourist (and what that even means), tourist traps, David of Michelangelo, neighborhood impact, swimming with dolphins, and more.

So grab some tea, get comfy, and hit that play button.

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NOTE: You may have to head to the website,, for clickable links.

#28 | Planning your next trip: sustainable travel series
If you really want to remember a moment, try not to take a photo (This is not the one Brandee mentioned, and it turns out she may have been wrong!)
The Sagrada Familia Will Finally Be Completed in 2026. The Last Challenge? Demolishing the Homes of Some 3,000 Local Residents.
New Yorkers Aren't Rude. You Are.
The Airbnb Invasion of Barcelona
Farm Sanctuary
Be a More Sustainable Traveler
Benefits To Travel As A Local
A Quick Guide To Ethical Animal Tourism
The Dark Side of Animal Tourism
How to Recognize (Un)Ethical Animal Tourism
20 "Tourist Traps" That Are Actually Super Cool And Worth Visiting (And 10 That Aren't)
Impact of Tourism on Local Community

Support the show

-Brandee and Hannah

Note: This transcript is mostly unedited.

Brandee   0:05  
It's not easy living on a dying planet. But it is easy to feel overwhelmed when it comes to making changes and taking action to try and save it. Where do you start? Is it even worth it? Can you really make a difference? Welcome to The Tea on Sustainable Living podcast, where we attempt to answer these questions by spilling the tea on living sustainably in a world that's going to shit. I'm Brandee.

Hannah  0:26  
And I'm Hannah. And for years, we've been navigating the big messy gray area of caring about our planet. It hasn't always been smooth sailing, but we're not giving up yet. So brew yourself a cup of tea, get comfy, and let's try and navigate that gray area together.

Brandee   0:45  
Hello, Give-a-Shitters, this is Brandee.

Hannah  0:47  
And this is Hannah. And you are listening to episode number 29 of The Tea on Sustainable Living podcast.

Brandee   0:53  
Yes, and welcome to part two of our sustainable travel series. Woohoo. There's the woods back.

Hannah  1:02  
White Girl Whoo.

Brandee   1:05  
Yes. Last episode number 28 was part one of our sustainable travel series about before you travel planning, planning your trip? Yeah. Go back and listen to that if you haven't already.

Hannah  1:17  
And now you're on holiday, somewhere, hopefully nice and temperate. But before

Brandee   1:22  
we dive for you into that beautiful view, some more quick update, there's been some changes on the back end and website and things. So if any links look funny, it's a work in progress. Just trying to reduce our back end kind of costs and time and trying to simplify things. So the website is still the same, But any slash episode number length, will no longer work. So for past episodes, but moving forward, we will just refer you to the website at the T on sustainable And you can scroll through and see all the episodes and links and transcripts and other links to take you to your podcast player, etc. And then we have a link tree. So on our Instagram, there's a new link that should take you to signing up for like email newsletter and just the latest episode and all of the things so yeah, check out the new link in our Instagram bio, which is also the to sustainable living. Hopefully all all links in these episode description shownotes, whatever you want to call them will still work for you. But if they don't work in your player, you might have to go to the website on a browser for clickable links for like the resources and updates. Good.

Hannah  2:41  
Thank you, Brandee, for their inaction.

Brandee   2:45  
Yeah, there's just so much like mental capacity. And we might do a separate maybe a separate bonus episode going into, I don't know, if anyone's interested in like, kind of behind the scenes and content creation. There's just just trying to remove like pressure, financial pressure, creative pressure to just have this be a fun hobby podcast probably won't be monetizing, or doing a Patreon anytime soon. We've talked about that briefly in the past, but maybe in like our recap episodes, I think, potentially doing that. But for now, no, we just want to kind of have fun and then not feel like we're forcing content and just talk about things as we would like so. So that's the brief update on that. Stay tuned for, I don't know, maybe a potential bonus episode talking about that more if we feel like it. Yeah. And you might have already heard a quick kind of update in the beginning of this episode. So yeah, I'll stop talking about that now. And we will get back into the travel stuff.

Hannah  3:35  
All right. What do you what do you want to spill the tea on brandee?

Brandee   3:41  
Well, my thought with this episode, I mean, we kind of hinted at it in the first one where I talked about like mindset of like traveling, like a local versus a tourist and like what does that even mean? But I think not that we're not going to talk about specific things because that's helpful. For like examples and such, but I think the mindset goes, can go much further. So it's really an in in Episode 28 Part One of the series it was you know, planning a trip while you're traveling somewhere and what you hope to get out of it. And that's what I wanted to tie into, like this local versus tourist. You know, Are you going somewhere just to, like I've done in the past, going to Paris and getting pictures from Eiffel Tower going to see the David statue in Florence, and you know, like ticking that box to feel like, I feel like maybe not always, but I got to a point where I was, you know, I may have one or two things that like, you know, quote unquote, tourist things that I wanted to, you know, tick the box get a picture in front of leaning tower of Pisa. Yeah, I've been there. And yeah, of course, me too. Yeah. I mean, I think that's fine. Because when you do travel, you are a tourist. So when we talk about traveling, like a local versus a tourist, I don't know. You have to figure out like what like what your

Hannah  4:52  
local is because the truth is, you're not a local. Yeah, unless you're a tourist. Right. And you're there to do How often to do things that you don't do in your everyday life in some way

Brandee   5:05  
I've ever I think been guilty of like doing more of those like, you know, tours, tick boxes and things like Time Square and whatever. Like they're, quote unquote tourist traps for a reason. They're they're represented in films and TV shows, and I don't know, I think it's fine to like, want to experience like, or want to see, see a place or even just take a quick selfie in front of a place that you've seen? I've done that. Yeah, but like, for me, I've tried to like balance that more with, I don't know, more like local experiences, trying to food Yeah, foods. I have a very specific approach to food travel, it's, you know, finding vegan options. Not all cities are created equal. But like getting like a list going kind of maybe by like neighborhood. Knowing like, where I could go and get something. And sometimes it's off the beaten path. Sometimes it's, you know, on whatever, like, Main Street in whatever city I'm on, but no, so yeah, for me, it's, I guess my mindset is that's like, kind of, in my balance of like, having one or two, no tourist things on my like to do lists when I go somewhere. So

Hannah  6:13  
yeah, I don't think like what you're saying about knowing your why is helpful. Because it's true, as well as like, especially like certain places, you know, that are very famous or have very specific things you kind of should do. There is this kind of like weird pressure, especially when you're like, kind of talking about it with someone else, you know, after the chair, like, oh, did you go here? And then feel like oh, like, No, I didn't? Like, that's fine. There's no, like, you don't have to go. But it does come down and feel this like weird, like, oh, like, Have I missed, I'm, like really missing out, like, everyone's expecting me to have gone. So I guess if you're quite clear, with your why, like, you know, and I guess that's like be been about being like, kind of secure in some way in your interests. You know, I mean, like, well, actually, I didn't go to this really famous art gallery, because quite frankly, I don't like looking around our galleries or I didn't go to this church because I don't like churches. I don't like churches, and I'll have a quick look on Google images. Right? That's fine. Or whatever, you know, whatever that thing is for you. But it's yeah, it's hard especially if you've traveled a long way. Maybe then and that also feels harder because you're like Oh, am I like wasting you know the money I'm invested in this trip by not doing this like this thing that's on the list.

Brandee   7:41  
Like fear of missing out maybe like even subconsciously anticipating that conversation when you get back right Oh, did you go here? No, I didn't. Yeah, crap. I went like I spent all the money and you know, I didn't do that thing. Yeah, I didn't go to the Eiffel Tower or whatever. Yeah, Time Square, whatever your thing is. Yeah,

Hannah  8:01  
I don't know. I'm not sure that I'm like quite there yet. I think I'd still feel quite a lot of like no necessary I know I don't like rushing around so I'm like happy to do fewer things because that's enjoyable to me. I don't want to like be a tourist with like a huge list of you know, you're going to like five different places in a day like that's just not me and I'm okay with that. But I do think there's that thing of like oh wait like am I am I missing out you know, sort of thing I get that that feeling?

Brandee   8:33  
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so I think it's helpful like to narrow down whatever list whatever you plan to like do for whatever trip you're going on. If you haven't if you're already on the trip, be like okay, if I were to leave tomorrow what is the one thing I would like regret the most not doing? Yeah, whenever they answer I tried to do that like before going like if I go all the way somewhere in commodity home what would I personally be like upset about and trying to remove? Yeah, like what other people might like expect or want me to do or whatever. Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's fine to know if you do just want to hit a few spots and take a selfie and go like I don't know I think that's fine. Yeah, there is just made me think there is some like there is a difference between like how much you like remember something like if you just take a picture of like the Eiffel Tower versus like a selfie of your like, of yourself and standing in front of it. Like once you take a picture of yourself it's like gives your brain permission to like not really remember it as much which something like the Eiffel Tower you're probably gonna remember because it's a it's quite big. But insert whatever thing you're taking a picture of so

Hannah  9:50  
but yeah, so I'm just thinking back of like trips I've taken like, for example, Florence with the statue and like, absolutely went and saw the day was statue but like Meet the thing I remember far and away about Florence was this like tiny little restaurant that we found that was like, my friend and I were staying in a hostel that was like, kind of like it was pretty far from the center. There wasn't really many options, or we'd booked too late or whatever it was. And we were at this like restaurant and it was like opposite the football studio football stadium. And it had all it was just like line with like footballers. And like, the food was amazing. And we went back like twice it was like so good. I don't know. It's like 100% like far and away my like main memory of

Brandee   10:36  
Yeah, I have a similar memory of like a hole in the wall place and I had like pesto gnocchi and us just so good. Yeah, just walking around and taking pictures of like, the bridges and the views. And

Hannah  10:48  
yeah, and then conversely, I would say though, like, I mean, maybe this is also just like a more recent trip. But like going to Barcelona like the Sagrada Familia is absolutely, like far and away the thing that though stood out for me the most, and that obviously is like the big tourist attraction. But for me, it was like 100% worth it. And I just thought it was studying. I was like, in there for like, two hours. Like it was beautiful.

Brandee   11:17  
So to go back and actually go inside,

Hannah  11:20  
because yeah, I wouldn't pendant. Yeah, it's just like the school just like the I mean, like, I love stained glass, that's especially like modern stained glass. That's something I really like. And so the whole, the most the majority of this stained glass, and the cathedral is like this, like kind of modern, abstract, abstract de stained glass. And it just like creates this like, beautiful like effect on the on the floor. And I did like a tour in there, which was like really worth it. And she was the tour guide was saying like, the gallery had been like, inspired by a forest and you have these like, branching, the columns that are holding up the cathedral do kind of look like tree branches. And the idea was that you would feel like the light in the, like the forest floor. And it was yeah, it was really, really beautiful. Like I'd really recommend it.

Brandee   12:13  
So it makes sense why they've taken so long with all that,

Hannah  12:17  
I mean, in theory, it's gonna be it's gonna be finished soon, like in the next 10 years.

Brandee   12:23  
Yeah. You know?

Hannah  12:28  
Yeah, so as to be punished in 2026. But then the pandemic happened? Oh, yeah. All right, what else?

Brandee   12:36  
What else? Yeah, that's kind of my, I guess those are my thoughts on like, yeah, telling, you know, local versus tourists, like, you are tourists. But like, I don't know, what do you want to? I try to go what do I want to get away from from a place? Is it a feeling do I want to feel like relaxed after do I want to feel like I did things or, I don't know, saw thing, right? It's walking towards museums, or whatever it is. And then I like to kind of have like a list of things I would like non negotiable things. Potential things I'm interested in and then you kind of just you might have to schedule those like one or two kind of tourist things if you want to, like see the David recommend, like booking. That then the rest of it just kind of going based on like, how you're feeling? Yeah, definitely leave like time to some flexibility. Because of it's just like a full itinerary of do this. Do that tick this box that box then? I don't know. That sounds too exhausting to me. But whatever your like travel style is, I think it'd be helpful to to know that and have some flexibility built in. Mm hmm. And then yeah, what like what does that mean to like, to balance with like, more local things, you have talked about food? To me that's like a big part of like, being single place and I'm a bit more limited and like vegan food, that it might not be the most like, I don't know, authentic, but like, I'm fine with that. Because I still I will still associate like a good meal a good restaurant with that place, even if it's not quote unquote, like authentic. Yeah. Any thoughts on like, local overs? Tourist?

Hannah  14:12  
Yeah, I think I mean, you've summarized it pretty well. I mean, yeah, I guess some of its what we talked about right in the last episode about as well if you're, like choosing like the tour guide and those sorts of things, or the walking tours, like maybe look for a company that's like local or like based in that base, rather than like one of the like, bigger companies. I mean, that depends on the place as well. And I'm saying that as someone who hasn't done that because I'm normally looking for the free tour which is normally run by like there's you know, I can't I can't think of any names off the top my head but there's like a company in Europe that's like in every city that do a lot of them. I think it's like Sunday, Monday or so anyway, I don't know. But yeah, I guess being a bit more thoughtful about like, what you You know, if you're, if you have an option, is there a kind of like a more local version of what you want to do that you can choose?

Brandee   15:11  
I think there's also an element of like being aware of your surroundings and like respectful of like, the actual locals who live there. Yeah, like what there's someone said about like New York that New Yorkers aren't rude the tourists are because you're still taking up the whole sidewalk and taking pictures and like people are trying to like, get to work or to the grocery store. Get home. People live there. Yeah. So just being aware of like, how you are owning Yeah, being aware of how you're affecting the people who live there. Whether it's noise that are drinking or Yep, taking pictures in the space or taking up on a sidewalk.

Hannah  15:45  
Yeah, yeah,

Brandee   15:47  
I'm definitely guilty of I'm just thinking, Oh, I'm on holiday. Everyone else here is on holiday. Oh, yeah, actually Sure. Live here. That's a good reminder to to myself. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Just like anytime I walked down like the major like kind of tourist streets here, I like want to scream Get out of my way. Especially that's like the best way to get home from like the grocery store. irritate irritated, because I just want to get home when people are just stopping and Oh, should we go in here? Should we go in there looking at their phones, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh,

Hannah  16:23  
I'm carrying my shopping. Let me know.

Brandee   16:25  
Like you're tired. Maybe you're coming home from being out with friends. I just want to go home in the summer just gonna go home and get a cold shower and go to bed. Because yeah. It's true. Just looking at the outline. A good question, just kind of reflection question to sum that up. Like if you go somewhere and only go to the quote unquote tourist traps, are you really experiencing the place? And I think that that's an individual got, yeah, I might be leaving the witness there the how I've worded that. Your answer you decide?

Hannah  16:59  
It does. Okay, that's kind of a hard one, though, isn't it as well? Because, like, I like no, but then there can also be like, that's like, according to who, whom, right. And also and also there is this like, danger, I guess, of like, when certain local areas I'm thinking particularly neighborhoods become more touristy. Because they're like, the cool neighborhood. And because we're looking for a more authentic experience. When traveling, there's like this kind of movement away in travel right? From like, staying in a hotel, like staying around, like, the tourist areas to like, oh, I want to stay in like that neighborhood. Because like, that's cool and like hip and whatever. You know, that's like the artist area of the city or like, you know, and that's more more genuine. And then it kind of just like turns these places then that like has an impact with like Airbnb ease and rent, like Airbnb ease, and then suddenly, like, I don't know, I remember. I mean, it's so when I when I lived in, in in lava beers in Madrid, which is very central neighborhood neighborhood in Madrid. And I mean, you know, it's, there are lots of different things going on there. But like, suddenly, I feel like the first few years I lived there, I didn't notice it so much. And then I was suddenly like, people are like just taking tours down the street. And like, he suddenly saw the like the start of like, do you know graffiti tours or like, there's like those like Tuk Tuks that started popping up in Madrid and like seeing them go around that neighborhood? And I was just like, what, this is so weird, especially when you live them. But I understand and I and I definitely do the same, right? I've definitely like you know, I am definitely done exactly the same. Like I'll go to the city and I'll like Google, like what are the coolest neighborhoods you know, like, I want to like go there for drinks and I want to go for dinner there and like, often they're like, again, like especially maybe it's a veggie and vegan that's often where there's like more veggie food perhaps and like more like artists the area's like away from like this the tourist traps but then the traditional tourist traps are where less people lived more people had already moved away from living in them I guess when they became more touristy in the first place. So it's just this like maybe an extension interesting of touristy areas. I don't know what the answer is this that was just a sort of ramble.

Brandee   19:52  
I was just gonna ask do you think then that like tourist areas there should be like a tourist kind of zone and like tourists should like stay there. are

Hannah  20:01  
no tourists they like checking your your path you are tourists read local like he's

Brandee   20:16  
just saying something to reset though for like where you're staying, especially in towns that are negatively impacted by Airbnb and you know, can I think I linked in the last episode where you can research it on your own different cities have different like rules and regulations. And if they're not all equal, but for areas like like Barcelona that are negatively impacted by Airbnb in Madrid to even out as much you know, are you doing more harm by staying in an Airbnb? Like doing more harm to like the local like people who live there than just staying in like a chain hotel? Yeah, because Sure, the train hotel like might be the money might not be going not as much would you say like 90% of like money leaves the local area, like when you stay in the chain hotel, but then if you stay in an Airbnb, somewhere that is where everything these are causing, you know, rent prices to skyrocket. And people who live there can't afford it anymore. Oh, then I guess it's a bit of a sticky situation.

Hannah  21:19  
Yeah, I definitely I was just away and I was I was staying in Airbnb. And I was like, this wasn't intentional, but I gave it but I was like, Oh, I felt I was definitely saying in someone's like, house. We were definitely it was like, clearly like this guy, like, rented out his his place. He lived over the weekends because he had to come back like, the last day. He was like, Yeah, you can check out late but I have to, like, come back and change for work. Like one so but like, you can stay later, you know? Which was, like really nice of him, right? But in a way I was like, Oh, like that was kind of like the initial idea of Airbnb, right? That you know, like he I don't know where he stayed but presumably has somewhere else he could stay during the weekend and then was just like, a bit of extra money. So it was like, Oh, that feels like a little bit I feel a bit better about it. But you have no way of knowing that. But, you know,

Brandee   22:16  
I think sometimes you can tell by the pictures if they're like, you know, 100% of the time on Airbnb, or it's like a rehab room in someone's house or apartment. Yeah. And I think places like San Francisco that's like super strict on like, having like hotel taxes because hotels are like they pay certain fees and taxes to like to operate our hotel. I can remember if that's if it was San Francisco but see it all depends on the city. But if you're already on the trip if you've already right here yeah, you're already in your place but just something to think reflect on while you are there like Yeah, are you in? I don't know if the tourist zone or are you in a local neighborhood and

Hannah  22:53  
Yeah, and if you are in a local neighborhood that can be really good but are you like interacting with it in like a respectful way I guess.

Brandee   23:02  
Yes, exactly. Good point. Yeah. Something else I thought about when thinking about this episode is like the different like animal kind of attractions you can do? Yeah, I've definitely been guilty of things like you know, so many dolphins and riding riding the donkeys are meals Yeah. And grease that I was going to loss of attraction and attraction and more of like a mode of transportation to get up million in one stairs and be like to someone the dolphins that was around the time that I think was not quite like I hadn't quite shifted my mindset of like, you know, like my impact on the planet and you know how to, like make certain changes. But I think it was like right around that time so I didn't feel great about it. But I was also it was a family vacation. And it was it was on a cruise. Which on two cruises I was treated to both of them their family vacation so like I don't want to say no, I'm anti cruise. The first one I don't think I was at all I don't think I like even cared like oh cruise. Yes. Like That sounds fun. Yeah. Wish that could be a whole separate episode. And like, the impact of cruises. Spoiler alert.

Hannah  24:13  
I'm like, oh, no, I didn't realize I was like, Oh, I've been looking at all these YouTube shorts that people who work on cruise ships. I'm like, Well do you can educate me

Brandee   24:26  
just I think there's a lot of waste and then like oil that gets put into the ocean and the impact Oh,

Hannah  24:31  
no, no, well, okay,

Brandee   24:33  
we could we could take a deeper dive into that later but like most things, I don't know if it's all black or white, but I kind of have this like negative connotation in my head now. Whatever I'm in anyway sinto but anyway, you're on your cruise one or cruise one of the excursion in Mexico we were swimming with dolphins and it was a slight kind of gated off area where they kept the dolphins and okay, you interact with them. You got pictures with them, and I'm saying they were treated badly It was just now and I think about it. I don't know how they were treated just our experience. They're like, you know, touching. Yeah, swim with the dolphins in it. It was fun. Yeah, no, no, no, I think back just the fact that they are being confined. For me that alone is enough to like not feel great about it. And I have thoughts about zoos, too. I don't know if they're created equal, they're different.

Hannah  25:22  
What do you think? I was just saying, I guess I've been to I'm thinking I've been to like, I've done like dolphin and like whale boats. But I've never swum with the dolphins, but that was only because I'm not very organized. The day I decided, I was like, Oh, I'm gonna go on one of these, like, the dolphin boats. And of course, she like have to book there. If you're one of the people who's going to swim with them, you have to?

Brandee   25:52  
I think you have it's something like you're just observing, like a whale watching or dolphin tour. I don't know that I see anything necessarily wrong with that. Yeah, but things like you know, getting pictures like tigers or elephants in Asia. Like, I think they're, it's known that they're often drugged so that they are, you know, okay, don't harm the person taking, you know, squeezing them and taking a selfie with them. And I don't like that. Yeah. You know, I think I get who's alternative travelers who have like either a blog post, or maybe even a podcast episode about these kind of animal unethical animal experiences. Attraction attractions, I think is maybe a better word, because that is, that's what they are, they're attracting you like to the place. So I don't know if that's one. It's not an authentic experience. Because if you're confining animals and drugging them and forcing them to interact with people, like that doesn't that doesn't feel right to me, because I wouldn't like that. I don't want to be confined and drugged, so that like, someone else could take a picture with me. So I don't want to put that on an animal.

Hannah  26:57  
No, no. Yeah. I think that one's be I mean, if most that one mostly feels like an easier,

Brandee   27:04  
yeah, I'm just gonna say not many people talking about it. So I wonder if it's just, I'm sure it's still being done. But is it?

Hannah  27:12  
I feel like this. I mean, I think there definitely are still, and maybe this is another question, but I don't know enough to go into it. But like, you know, I feel like for example, elephant sanctuaries. I see that quite a lot in like Asia, like when I've seen like, influences or whatever going on away. And it's that it's like that move away, like maybe like 10, or maybe 20 years ago, more accurate, like, you would go and you would like ride the elephants. And now that's kind of considered, okay, like, that's not like a very good thing to do. And so, but like these kind of animal sanctuaries, where you like, playing with the animals and like washing them, that still seems quite common. And that's kind of like I guess I feel like that's like sold as being like, ethical.

Brandee   28:03  
I think if it if it is what they say it is, if it isn't a sanctuary, if they are like the animals would otherwise like Not, not do well. Yeah, if they weren't there, I did a place I think it was just called Animal Sanctuary or Farm Sanctuary in LA and they have one in New York to where you go, and you you pay it's a tour, you only interact with animals, if they if they are approached, the tour guide was like, okay, they're not the animals not having a good day. Don't go near them. This one's very friendly. You companion, and they can educate you on Well, this farm sanctuary educate you on you know, right ethics of like animals and how we interact with them. And there's a big food element, right? So I feel good about that. Yeah. And even if you don't go you can still like, donate to like a local one. Before you leave.

Hannah  28:55  
Yeah. So yeah, I

Brandee   28:56  
do feel good about that. If it if it is like, you know, an authentic, like, sanctuary type of place. But somewhere like, it just it gets blurry, because then I don't places like zoos, which I think is another popular like kind of destination, like the San Diego Zoo, for example. Like, yeah, you know, these exotic animals that wouldn't otherwise be here are just here for our pleasure. I think that's the thing like, what is the main reason for these animals being there? Is it for their protection, like a sanctuary? Or is it to make people money? Like, is it was it just for our enjoyment? And I think, yeah, you have to kind of ask yourself these questions and do your own research and see what answers you come up with? And that's not always cleared things like greenwashing. They're not always clear. You do have to put a bit of research and nobody thinks some things are more obvious than others. So I guess it's

Hannah  29:43  
those also what do you do with all of these like structures that are from a former like a time where, like something like zoos? I think that's like a big shift and like, maybe like human understanding of the world. Um, like 100 years ago, I mean, I'm sure that voids been people who have been anti zoos. But we like animals as entertainment. Like in circuses, and zoos, like was a lot more like popular and like, I guess, not considered wrong. And so especially something like zoos they've had they were built with this like huge infrastructure. So like, what do you do with them now? Now those like questions are being raised more like, generally, the I guess that maybe depends on the country, but I feel like that's something you know, I've heard people talk about like, even people who weren't like this to veggie or vegan, but like, you know, the ethics around zoos. Do you want to go? Do you not? But like, these zoos are already here? And then perhaps from a time Yeah. You know, you don't I don't think could be wrong, but you don't really hear new zoos being built. So is it necessarily like greenwashing if they move towards more like, emphasizing like, the protection of animals? I mean, yes, probably. But also like, is that just like a necessary transition? With this, like, general change in like a human like are, you know, like, what is acceptable? Like SLE today? Versus like, 100 years ago, when they were first created? or 50 years ago? or whenever it was? Yeah,

Brandee   31:22  
I'd say it all comes down to like, the main objective for I don't know, like, who makes the decisions? Let's just say the zoo owner, executive, whatever. Like what is Brian objective? Is that the animal's well being or the paying human customers? Like well being happiness? And I don't know that like, we have a separate episode to how to like ship, zoos. answer's

Hannah  31:42  
no, I don't either.

Brandee   31:45  
All right. Um, we are within our 10 minute warning. So I'll leave links to I found some stuff about like, souvenirs when you travel?

Hannah  31:55  
Yeah. And then I guess there's all the things like that you have in your everyday life, like, be reusable. Yeah. Like, is it worth it? Like bringing a water bottle, maybe water bottle with a filter? Depending on where you're going? Yeah. Like your cut? Like, maybe not necessarily like throwing all of those things out? Just because you're on holiday.

Brandee   32:13  
Right? Yes. And then as far as like getting around? I mean, I think it's similar to like getting to somewhere to and from the destination is, yeah, how can you have less of like an impact or reduce? Can you you know, carpool, take the bus, train, whatever, whatever makes the most sense for where you are. But I think that does start in the planning stage. Like where is your like, hotel or Airbnb? Wherever you're staying? Where is that located? Because then that limits you and how you can like, get around if you're staying in the center of a city can take the metro. Yeah, yeah.

Hannah  32:44  
All right.

Brandee   32:45  
Urbanears might carry over into Part Three, because that is kind of like what you bring home long term after the trip, because I didn't want to talk more about that.

Hannah  32:52  
Right? Yeah, that's true.

Brandee   32:54  
Well, we maybe I'll tie that up three. Okay, cool. Okay. All right. You have a shit are. So thank you for listening. And let us know what you thought about this episode. If we missed any, like major points of something that you found helpful that we didn't mention was message DM, on our Instagram at the T on sustainable living, and you can still head to the T on sustainable For shownotes links and resources. You'll just have to scroll for the specific episode number to find it and think that's all to the next one.

Hannah  33:25  
Bye. Bye.

Hannah  33:30  
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the T on sustainable living podcast. Now go share it with a friend, a co worker, a partner, a family member, or whoever a pet, your cat, someone on

Brandee   33:42  
Whoever you think could use a little more support on their sustainability journey, share it.

Hannah  33:48  
You can send them over to our website, And while you're there, check out the show notes for more info on today's topic. 

Brandee   33:57  
All right, Give-a-Shitter, tea you later. Get it? Tea you later? As in, see you later? So punny…

Hannah.  34:02

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